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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Wishes for Latin Modern</title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" link="#0000FF"
vlink="#990066" alink="#DD0000">
<h1>Wishes for Latin Modern</h1>
<hr>
<p>
<em>
Unfortunately, I will not be able to maintain this www page
anymore. I am searching for a person that can do the work from now
on.
</em>
</p>
<hr>
<p>
In de.comp.text.tex, there has been a discussion about the
Latin Modern font family that is developed by
Bogusław Jackowski aka Jacko,
<a href="mailto:B.Jackowski@gust.org.pl">B.Jackowski@gust.org.pl</a>,
and Janusz M. Nowacki,
<a href="mailto:jnowacki@uck.uni.torun.pl">jnowacki@uck.uni.torun.pl</a>.
</p>
<p>
This list contains wishes for future versions of the Latin Modern
font family (versions 0.86 to 0.92).
</p>
<p>
Wishes that will surely not be realized are
<strike>canceled like this</strike>.
</p>
<p>
<a href="lmodern-done.html">Here, you can find these wishes that have
been realized or rejected.</a>
</p>
<h3>How to add new items to this list</h3>
<p>
At the moment, nobody maintains this page. Until a new maintainer is
found it is difficult to add new items.
<!-- If you like me to add a new item to this list please write a text
that describes the problem/wish.
I will include it without any change to this list.
Please tell me if your mail address may be published on this list,
too.
If possible, use html tags for special characters, e.g.,
<code><code></code>...<code></code></code> for code
examples,
<code>&lsquo;</code>...<code>&rsquo;</code> for
‘...’ etc.
Send your text to
<a href="mailto:nobody">nobody</a>.
-->
</p>
<h3>Kerning</h3>
<ul>
<li>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b>
All kerning has been prepared from scratch.
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:ralf.stubner@physik.uni-erlangen.de">Ralf Stubner</a>,
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a> (2004-07-19):
Kerning around quotation marks is problematic, see
<a href="lm-kerning-092.pdf">lm-kerning-092.pdf</a> and
<a href="lm-kerning.tex">lm-kerning.tex</a>. Note the large
corrections needed for <code>quotedblleft</code> when it is used as
German style <em>right</em> quotation mark. This is caused by the
horizontally not centered <code>quotedblleft</code>. There is a simple
solution by using <code>quotedblleft.alt</code> etc. which are
horizontally centered. We do not see any disadvantage in using
these, even not for English texts.
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:olli@sopos.org">Oliver Heins</a> (2004-11-26):
Kerning between the bold and roman letters ‘t’ and
‘l’ seems to be too big. Especially the bold version
is very ugly. Both italic and bold-italic are okay.
See
<a href="lmodern-tl.pdf">lmodern-tl.pdf</a> and
<a href="lmodern-tl.tex">lmodern-tl.tex</a>.
</li>
</ul>
<h3>Text fractions</h3>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
Superior and inferior digits, comma, and period for
arbitrary textfractions similar to textcomp's
<code>\textonehalf</code> should be added.
The solidus exists called ‘fraction’ (Thanks to
<a href="mailto:moho01ab@student.cbs.dk">Morten Høgholm</a>).
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>Not touched yet.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:moho01ab@student.cbs.dk">Morten Høgholm</a>
(2004-04-16):
It would be great if the `<code>solidus</code>' could
have a fake lenght so that you wouldn't need to kern all
the time; just like it is in the Adobe fonts.
</li>
</ul>
<h3>Single glyphs/ligatures</h3>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
I like the μ that is a mixture from the u and the p, as it is
in cm-super (with serifs), more than the Latin Modern μ which
does not have serifs at all. But this topic seems to be controversial.
<a href="mailto:stefan-ulrich.nntp@zen.co.uk">Stefan Ulrich</a>
does not agree.
He thinks that most greek fonts don't have a serif at the descender
of the <code>\textmu</code>.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>Not touched yet.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:kirpal@rz.uni-leipzig.de">Gerrit Kirpal</a>:
The degree symbol (<code>\textdegree</code>) should have the
same size as the degree sign in degree celsius
(<code>\textcelsius</code>).
It should be slightly larger than used in <code>\textcelsius</code>
but much smaller than in <code>\textdegree</code>. A ratio of 2/5
between the diameter and the height of capitals would be nice
(in <code>\textcelsius</code>, it is 1/3 while it is 1/2 in
<code>\textdegree</code>).<br>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>
I fully agree.
The <code>\textdegree</code> really is ugly in Latin Modern.
In addition, the outline of the ball in <code>\textdegree</code> is
too thin.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>We also agree that the present
state of the art
is unacceptable. Will be touched as soon as possible.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:kirpal@rz.uni-leipzig.de">Gerrit Kirpal</a>:
The circled text symbols are better than in cm-super, but they
have too thin outlines.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>Not touched yet.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
The <code>\pm</code> is ugly.
The original CM version is much nicer.
At least, the ‘+’ part of the sign should be
symmetrical.<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Hardly implementable to full extent. Knuth constructs plusminus
by shifting plus so that its bottom touches the baseline and next
places a bar (minus) on the baseline. This works for circa half of
the LM family. In the rest of fonts the glyph would be too high
(most notably in LMBX5, LMBX6, LMSSQBX8 and LMSSQBO8). We decided
that the resulting glyph should not be higher than ascender height;
if it would, we decreased its height par force.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:blacktrash@gmx.net">Christian Ebert</a> (2004-01-16):
Some design dizes are not displayed correctly in Acrobat Reader
(at least version x86 linux 5.0.5), e.g.,
the ‘A’ in 10pt is printed below the baseline
(<a href="lm10pt.tex">lm10pt.tex</a>,
<a href="lm10pt.png">lm10pt.png</a>);
the ‘i’ in 11pt is printed above the baseline
(<a href="lm11pt.tex">lm11pt.tex</a>,
<a href="lm11pt.png">lm11pt.png</a>).<br>
<a href="mailto:andreas.lobinger@netsurf.de">Andreas Lobinger</a>
(2004-01-16):
This may occur due to wrong hinting.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>Not touched yet.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:ralf.stubner@physik.uni-erlangen.de">Ralf Stubner</a>
(2004-03-12):
The umlauts in ä, ö, and ü as well as in
Ä, Ö, and Ü should be
at the same height as in the EC fonts.
This height is a compromise between the default placement in the
CM fonts and the placement in the CM fonts with
<code>(n)german</code>. Example:
<a href="umlauts.pdf">umlauts.pdf</a>,
<a href="umlauts.tex">umlauts.tex</a>.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Not touched yet. We wanted to consult the matter with Hermann
Zapf (there was a little chance) but we haven't managed to
arrange the meeting.
</em>
</li>
<li>
Arni Magnusson (2004-04-16):
Thanks for creating the lmodern fonts. Icelandic LaTeX users have been
using cm-super to render the Þ (thorn) and Ð (eth) characters in type 1,
and although cm-super does a fine job, lmodern seems like a cleaner
solution to the Þ and Ð problem.<br>
I understand you are still working on the fonts, and I'd like to offer my
comments on issues specific to Icelandic characters. If you open the three
attached PDF documents (not provided here, Jacko does have the examples), you will notice mainly three differences: (1) the
upper case Þ should carry its belly higher in lmodern, (2) the comma over
the ú should have a lower angle, and (3) the neck of the ð should be bent
further down. Knuth's bitmaps and cm-super look similar to books printed
in Iceland.<br>
The kerning is also an issue, in light of Knuth's original goal, described
in the TUGboat 21(2): "the rendering [should] be the same in ten years
[...] on everybody's machine it [should] come out the same, not only now
but in the future." An ambitious goal, but at any rate, the smaller the
kerning differences, the better.
</li>
<li>
Morten Høgholm (2004-06-11):
At this years BachoTeX I talked to Boguslaw about adding some more
ligatures to Latin Modern, as we in Danish really need fj. At
<a href="http://www.eur.nl/fw/staff/lokhorst/metafont.html"
>http://www.eur.nl/fw/staff/lokhorst/metafont.html</a> a lot of ligatures are
shown, although not all of them are particular nice. He promised to look
at it. (When you have the standard fi and ij ligatures, you would also
think there should be an fij, right? In polish they have a common flower
named `fijolet' making Boguslaw even more eager to add it... The Dutch use
it in common words as `fijn' as well.) I guess this calls for a special
fontencoding for Danish users.
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
There are some good ligatures. But for example the fff ligature is useless
in German. You should be careful in adding new ligatures.
</li>
<li>
Martín Darío Safe (2004-07-05):
When using the lm package version 0.92, almost all occurrences of
‘ij’ and ‘IJ’ in your document will output ij
and IJ Dutch digraphs. This seems inadequate for all European languages
but Dutch. Also, this behaviour can prevent you from copying and pasting,
searching, and indexing words containing ‘ij’ on PDF
files for non-Dutch texts.
More description about that topic at
<a href="http://www.mdsafe.com.ar/ijdigraphissue.htm"
>http://www.mdsafe.com.ar/ijdigraphissue.htm</a>.
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:eckhard.neber@web.de">Eckhard Neber</a> (2004-07-09):
I asked on dctt why the glyphs of scedilla and tcedilla are different
from the others and was pointed to
<a href="http://www.tug.org/tug2003/preprints/Jackowski/jackowski.pdf"
>http://www.tug.org/tug2003/preprints/Jackowski/jackowski.pdf</a>
It says that this is a feature following the rules of the Romanian
language, but referring to
<a href="http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/turkish.pdf"
>"http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/turkish.pdf</a>
it is handled differently in Turkish.
Is there a possibility to have both variants?
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:ralf.stubner@physik.uni-erlangen.de">Ralf Stubner</a>
(2004-07-17):
Similar to [sS]cedilla, [tT]cedilla should really be a [tT] with cedilla
below. Both, [sS]cedilla and [tT]cedilla should be used in T1/Cork
encoding, as the turkish [sS]cedilla would not be available otherwise,
and using [sS]cedilla and [tT]commacent at the same time would be
inconsistent. [sS]commaacent and [tT]commacent are still available via
the QX encoding. Also, the EC fonts, which can be seen as reference
implementation of the T1/Cork encoding, use [sS]cedilla and [tT]cedilla.
</li>
<li>
Ramón Casares
(2005-06-01):
The Latin Modern fonts are really needed in Spanish, so I am following its
development with much interest. One thing I have notice, comparing last year
printings – from August to be more precise – with printings done with the
new version, is the horizontal placement of the acute accent. In the last
year printing, the acute accent was a little bit to the right, but
acceptable. The current version is too much to the left. And, in the case of
the <code>í</code>, is imposible for me not to notice it every time I
read it. So I would suggest to use the Computer Modern model to place the
acute accent, which is just where it should.
</li>
<li>
Stephan Hennig
(2005-03-08):
In thread "Italicalized old-style figures" from 2004-09-08 on
comp.text.tex there has been some agreement to the opinion CM's
old-style figures do look ugly. Is it possible for LM to provide nicer
old-style figures?<br>
As I'm completely ignorant about font design I don't really know what
makes CM's old-style figures look so boring. And I don't know if a
complete redesign would be necessary to get nicer ones. Maybe just
slanting the current old-style digits <em>slightly</em> could make the
single digits look more individual and less obstrusive?
<br>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
I think only a complete new design would help. For instance, the 1 and 3
normally really look different in lining and old-style figures which they
don't for LM. Slanting is wrong in my opinion.
</li>
</ul>
<h3>General things</h3>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
Virtual fonts or font encodings for usage of old-style digits
(similar to the eco package).
Small Caps should either use old-style digits or get extra
lining digits with a height that fits to the
‘minuscles’.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Not touched yet. Help is welcome. But remember that each new
encoding means a new set of TFM files.
</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
I would like proportional digits in addition to the table digits
with same width which are provided up to now.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>Not touched yet.</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
I think Latin Modern should have a full set of Small Caps fonts
including bold series, italic/slanted shape as well as the sans serif
and type writer families.<br>
For the roman (serif) family of Latin Modern, the bold extended small
caps font shapes are missing
(‘LMCaps##-Bold’ and ‘LMCaps##-BoldItalic’).
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Nice idea, although it would require a lot of work (see the remarks
concerning the preparing of the bold typewriter variant). But it should be
considered seriously, as Knuthian small caps are hardly usable in the context
of OpenType fonts (see below). So, perhaps adding alternative small caps
makes sense.
</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
The slanted small caps font shape ‘LMCaps##-Italic’
is present, but it is not prepared to be used by LaTeX.
With the package
<a href="ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/slantsc.zip">‘slantsc.sty’</a>,
slanted small capitals
can be used, if the corresponding <code>fd</code> files contain
entries for font shapes <code>scsl</code> and <code>scit</code> for
slanted and italic font shapes, respectively.
<code>t1lmr.fd</code> already includes the font
<code>lmr/m/scsl</code> (Normal weighted slanted small capitals).
For the italic shape, a substitution could be defined:
<br><code>\DeclareFontShape{T1}{lmr}{m}{scit}{<->ssub *
lmr/m/scsl}{}</code>.<br>
The same should be done for new small caps shapes (sans serif, bold,
etc.).
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Not touched yet. We'll try to prepare the relevant files in the next release.
</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a>:
Cpa files for supporting the package <code>pdfcprot</code> should be
added (2003-11-26).
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Not touched yet. Help welcome.
</em>
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:zedler@ei.tum.de">Michael Zedler</a> (2004-01-15):
Build an OpenType version of Latin Modern. Then, SC, OSF,
special ligatures etc. were included and accessable from DTP
programmes.
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
We work on it, but the task is not trivial. For example, metric files
for cmr10 and cmcsc10 differ significantly. Compare the two excerpts
from AFM files:
<br>
cmr10.afm:<br>
<code>C 65 ; WX 750 ; N A ; B 32 0 717 716 ;</code><br>
<code>C 66 ; WX 708.333 ; N B ; B 36 0 651 683 ;</code><br>
<code>C 67 ; WX 722.222 ; N C ; B 56 -22 665 705 ;</code><br>
cmcsc10.afm:<br>
<code>C 65 ; WX 813.879 ; N A ; B 48 0 765 716 ;</code><br>
<code>C 66 ; WX 770.824 ; N B ; B 58 0 698 683 ;</code><br>
<code>C 67 ; WX 786.102 ; N C ; B 72 -22 713 705 ;</code><br>
Small caps are circa 10% wider; therefore, cmcsc10 and cmr10 cannot just
be joined into a single OpenType font with small caps available through
the `smcp' feature.
</em>
<br>
Peter Dyballa (2004-11-25):
Will Robertson has prepared an OpenType version of the Latin
Modern fonts (for usage with XeTeX):
<a href="http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/~will/tex/"
>http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/~will/tex/</a>
</li>
<li>
Make Latin Modern fonts usable with Mac computers (2004-01-16).
<br>
<b>Jacko/Janusz (2004-04-16):</b> <em>
Once we have OpenType fonts the problem will be solved, will it not?
Needs time, however.
</em>
(I don't know if this is an official work.)
</li>
<li>
<a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a> (2004-07-09):
The lmodern.sty style file should get the same version number and
date as the Latin Modern fonts and a description what it does, e.g.,
<br>
<code>\ProvidesPackage{lmodern}[2004/04/14 v0.92 Latin Modern fonts]</code>
</li>
<li>
<a href="http://iki.fi/juhtolv">Juhapekka Tolvanen</a> (2004-08-24):
It would be nice, if latin Modern would include also those fonts of
Computer Modern Bright. Right now the only free (in the sense of freedom)
version of Computer Modern Bright in Type 1 format is in that awfully
big cm-super package and hfbright package.
</li>
</ul>
<hr>
<address><a href="mailto:h.harders@tu-bs.de">Harald Harders</a></address>
<!-- Created: Thu Feb 12 11:08:22 MET 1998 -->
<!-- hhmts start -->
Last modified: Tue Sep 6 00:25:48 CEST 2005
<!-- hhmts end -->
</body>
</html>
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