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author | Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> | 2019-09-02 13:46:59 +0900 |
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committer | Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> | 2019-09-02 13:46:59 +0900 |
commit | e0c6872cf40896c7be36b11dcc744620f10adf1d (patch) | |
tree | 60335e10d2f4354b0674ec22d7b53f0f8abee672 /info/ltx3pub/l3d002d.tex |
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diff --git a/info/ltx3pub/l3d002d.tex b/info/ltx3pub/l3d002d.tex new file mode 100644 index 0000000000..0360e82ae9 --- /dev/null +++ b/info/ltx3pub/l3d002d.tex @@ -0,0 +1,471 @@ +%%% ==================================================================== +%%% @LaTeX3-article{ LaTeX3-LTX3-002d, +%%% filename = "l3d002d.tex", +%%% archived = "ctan:/tex-archive/info/ltx3pub/", +%%% related-files = "part of l3d002.tex", +%%% author = "David Rhead", +%%% doc-group = "Project core team", +%%% title = "Some ideas for improving {\LaTeX}\\ General", +%%% version = "1.1", +%%% date = "18-Mar-1993", +%%% time = "20:19:36 GMT", +%%% status = "public, official", +%%% abstract = "Ideas and suggestions from David Rhead for +%%% improving various areas in LaTeX", +%%% note = "prepared for the workshop at Dedham 91", +%%% keywords = "", +%%% project-address = "LaTeX3 Project \\ +%%% c/o Dr. Chris Rowley \\ +%%% The Open University \\ +%%% Parsifal College \\ +%%% Finchley Road \\ +%%% London NW3 7BG, England, UK", +%%% project-tel = "+44 171 794 0575", +%%% project-FAX = "+44 171 433 6196", +%%% project-email = "LTX3-Mgr@SHSU.edu", +%%% copyright = "Copyright (C) 1993 LaTeX3 Project +%%% All rights reserved. +%%% +%%% Permission is granted to make and distribute +%%% verbatim copies of this publication or of +%%% coherent parts from this publication provided +%%% this copyright notice and this permission +%%% notice are preserved on all copies. +%%% +%%% Permission is granted to copy and distribute +%%% translations of this publication or of +%%% individual items from this publication into +%%% another language provided that the translation +%%% is approved by the original copyright holders. +%%% +%%% No other permissions to copy or distribute this +%%% publication in any form are granted and in +%%% particular no permission to copy parts of it +%%% in such a way as to materially change its +%%% meaning.", +%%% generalinfo = "To subscribe to the LaTeX3 discussion list: +%%% +%%% Send mail to listserv@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de +%%% with the following line as the body of the +%%% message (substituting your own name): +%%% +%%% subscribe LaTeX-L First-name Surname +%%% +%%% To find out about volunteer work: +%%% +%%% look at the document vol-task.tex which can +%%% be obtained electronically, see below. +%%% +%%% To retrieve project publications electronically: +%%% +%%% Project publications are available for +%%% retrieval by anonymous ftp from ctan hosts: +%%% ftp.tex.ac.uk +%%% ftp.dante.de +%%% ftp.shsu.edu +%%% in the directory /tex-archive/info/ltx3pub. +%%% +%%% The file ltx3pub.bib in that directory gives +%%% full bibliographical information including +%%% abstracts in BibTeX format. A brief history +%%% of the project and a description of its aims +%%% is contained in l3d001.tex. +%%% +%%% If you only have access to email, and not ftp +%%% You may use the ftpmail service. +%%% Send a message just containg the word +%%% help +%%% to ftpmail@ftp.shsu.edu +%%% for more information about this service. +%%% +%%% For offers of financial contributions or +%%% contributions of computing equipment or +%%% software, contact the project at the above +%%% address, or the TeX Users Group. +%%% +%%% For offers of technical assistance, contact the +%%% project at the above address. +%%% +%%% For technical enquiries and suggestions, send +%%% e-mail to the latex-l list or contact the +%%% project at the above address.", +%%% checksum = "53711 471 3078 21211", +%%% docstring = "The checksum field above contains a CRC-16 +%%% checksum as the first value, followed by the +%%% equivalent of the standard UNIX wc (word +%%% count) utility output of lines, words, and +%%% characters. This is produced by Robert +%%% Solovay's checksum utility.", +%%% } +%%% ==================================================================== + +\chapter{Some e-mail comments about treatment of wide objects} +\label{wide-things} + +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: "Nelson H.F. Beebe" <beebe@EDU.UTAH.MATH> +Date: Tue, 18 Dec 90 17:17:39 MST + +In the current LaTeX, input of the form + +\begin{center} +...something... +\end{center} + +does not center the ...something... if its box is wider than +textwidth; instead, it is flush against the left margin, and +extends into the right margin. + +I feel this is counterintuitive, and the situation happens +often enough with wide tables, that I sought, and found, a +solution: + +% This environment allows wide centered objects to spill into the +% margins, evenly on both sides +\newenvironment{widecenter}{ + \bgroup + \makeatletter + \@flushglue = 0pt plus 1fil minus \textwidth + \makeatother + \begin{center} +}{ + \end{center} + \egroup +} + +This solves my own problems, but the question for the LaTeX +redesign is: + + Should centering into the margins be the default + behavior of the center environment? + +Obviously, the default definition of the center environment could +be easily modified to work this way. + +I personally would vote for such a change, unless someone exhibits +good reasons to the contrary. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: bbeeton <BNB@COM.AMS.MATH> +Date: Thu, 20 Dec 90 16:32:56 CET + +nelson asks whether over-large centered items should be allowed +to exceed the margins automatically. + +while i agree that centering of items that are slightly wider +than the text area is usually preferable to having it shifted +to the right, in cases such as centered titles an even better +solution is to divide the centered text into more shorter lines. + +it's my feeling that many people tend to ignore overfull boxes in +any event, and full automatic centering might tend to camouflage +situations where reasonable action would yield a better result. +so i'd be in favor of keeping a widecenter environment, for +intentional use in situations where there isn't any choice. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: MITTELBACH FRANK <PZF5HZ@EARN.RUIPC1E> +Date: Thu, 20 Dec 90 17:46:11 CET +> +> while i agree that centering of items that are slightly wider +> than the text area is usually preferable to having it shifted +> to the right, in cases such as centered titles an even better +> solution is to divide the centered text into more shorter lines. +> +> it's my feeling that many people tend to ignore overfull boxes in +> any event, and full automatic centering might tend to camouflage +> situations where reasonable action would yield a better result. +> so i'd be in favor of keeping a widecenter environment, for +> intentional use in situations where there isn't any choice. + +What Barbara is implicitly pointing out is that there are two +or perhaps three distinct concepts connected with centering of +items. + + 1) Centering of text and objects similar to text in a + `reasonable' way. If things do not fit into a + given frame (\hsize) then the user gets a waring + and an overfull box. This is more or less + realized in the currrent LaTeX environment. + + 2) Centering of items on the current page regardless of their + size, or at least within some given extra size. This is + useful for tables figures etc. and only possible in the + current LaTeX by using \makebox to hide the actual size. + + 3) Centering of text within a given frame so that lines are + neither too long nor too short. This can be done automatically + only making direct use of \leftskip and \rightskip. + +I suppose the correct way to handle this is to either provide +different environment or (which I favor) to add attributes to the +center environment to address the special cases. I think that the +default setting could be left as it is. + +A similar problem arises with flushleft and flushright environments. +In case of flushleft we miss a raggedright environment for text +typesetting which is able to hyphenate in a given range. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +Subject: Re: Wide things +From: Don Hosek <DHOSEK@EDU.CLAREMONT.HMCVAX> + +>My first reservation is that, in publishing practice, it seems normal +>[1, p. 336; 2, p. 158] to set tables in a smaller typeface than the body of +>the text. [1] says "tables may be set in small type or footnote size, or the +>size may vary from one table to another ... ". [2] seems to imply that it +>is normal to set tables in an 8-point typeface, presumably when the +>body of a document is in 10-point (and suggests going down to 7- or 6-point +>if a table won't fit in 8-point). In fact [1] and [2] recognise that +>"getting tables to fit" is often difficult, and devote several paragraphs +>to tactics for dealing with the difficulties. So I think that: +>* the user should still get a warning if a centred thing is allowed to +> spill into the margin. The user should then e.g. go and read [1] and [2] +> to decide whether to accept the "spillage" or to e.g. see whether +> column-headings could be made more concise and/or decide whether to change +> font-size +>* there is a case for making the font-size in the "successor to tabular" +> a feature of the design. Typically if a design has main text in 10-point, +> the design might give 8-point as the default in the "successor to tabular". +> Then (a) LaTeX would conform to what appears to me to be publishing +> practice (b) the proportion of tables whose width causes problems would +> be reduced (and less users would bother people like me about them). + +Below is an excerpt from my LaTeX class notes which explains how +I teach users to deal with the situation here and now. Although the +text deals simply with centering and the like, the approach can be +applied to other items of table formatting as well (many of my LaTeX +styles provide a somewhat fancier aroundtbl environment built-in). + +The tabular environment is normally treated as just a big letter. +For example, it's possible to get LaTeX to typeset something that + 4 1 ii +looks like 123 345 fgh in the middle of a paragraph. This is + 7 12 q +seldom actually desired, but useful to know. Where this becomes +particularly noticable is that a tabular environment in its own +paragraph is typeset with paragraph indentation, viz: + + 4 1 ii + 123 345 fgh + 7 12 q + +rather than flush left as you might prefer. The best way to deal +with this problem is to define an aroundtbl environment which +will tell LaTeX how to postion the tabular. The reason for +defining an environment in this fashion is that it makes it +easier to change how the tabulars will be placed: if one simply +told LaTeX to center each tabular and then decided to typeset all +tabulars flushleft, every instance of tabular would need to be +changed. Defining the aroundtbl environment would reduce the work +to simply changing a single definition. + +Using the aroundtbl environment, one would simply type something +along the lines of the following for each tabular: + +\begin{aroundtbl} +\begin{tabular}{cc} +These columns & are \\ +lined up & and centered +\end{tabular} +\end{aroundtbl} + + +The following definitions are three possibilities for definining +the aroundtbl environment: + +\newenvironment{aroundtbl}{\begin{center}}{\end{center}} + +will center each tabular. + +\newenvironment{aroundtbl}{\begin{flushright}}{\end{flushright}} + +will place each tabular flush against the right margin. + +\newenvironment{aroundtbl}{\begin{flushleft}}{\end{flushleft}} + +will place each tabular flush against the left margin. + +n.b. You should never use the center, flushright, or flushleft +environments outside of the definition of a new command or +environment. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: Leslie Lamport <lamport@COM.DEC.SRC> +Date: Wed, 2 Jan 91 20:12:58 CET + +Once again, the discussion on LaTeX-L is sailing off into the wild blue +yonder. The document style should not try to figure out that because +this is the left-hand page of an article for a physics journal edited +by a woman, overlong equations should extend to the right. This kind +of nonsense will produce 126-megabyte document styles that will exhibit +three new bugs per month for ten years. + +Problems such as things that don't fit on a line require user +intervention. They are solved, as the final step in producing a +document, by inserting "visual-formating" commands. + +Instead of all this pie-in-the-sky discussion about how to do +everything automagically, how about giving some thought to how the user +can EASILY specify where this particular equation or table should be +placed on this page of this version of this document. Or, more +generally, on how visual-formating commands, which may have to be +changed each time a new version is created, should be integrated +with the idealogically correct logical-formating commands. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: David Rhead ... +Subject: Tables (which may be wide) +Date: 9 Jan 91 15:25:49 +To: latex-l%dhdurz1@uk.ac.earn-relay +Msg ID: < 9 Jan 91 15:25:49 GMT A101BA@UK.AC.NOTT.VME> + +Would there be a consensus in favour of the following? + +1. Have a standard name for "an environment into which people normally + put non-floated tables". Names currently on offer include Don + Hosek's "aroundtbl" and my "displaytable". I'll use the name "N" + below (where N denotes an unknown). + +2. In the manual, mention N (as the environment into which the user + normally puts a table) before mentioning center, etc. (to which the user + might have to resort if user intervention is required for a particularly + awkwardly sized table). + +3. In the standard styles, have a fairly simple definition of N, but + one which conforms to a common publishing convention. E.g., in the + successors to report, article and book, something like + \newenvironment{N}{\begin{center}\begin{footnotesize}}% + {\end{footnotesize}\end{center}} + would do (although a definition involving Nelson's widecenter + or Frank's "center with attributes" could be used). Thus the user + would go + \begin{N} + \begin{tabular}{...} % or tabbing, or their successors + ... + \end{tabular} + \end{N} + I'd justify the footnotesize as a "common publishing convention" by + reference to Butcher's book and the Chicago Manual of Style (see my last + mail) which both talk in terms of tables usually being set in a smaller + typeface than the main text (but people who work for publishers would + be better placed than me to advise). Such definitions should be + sufficiently simple that they don't generate "3 bugs/month for 10 years". + Yet the existence of N would make it clear "what one should do with a + table" and having a reduction in size as standard (if adopted) would + save a bit of "support" time by allowing more information in before + problems of size arise. + +4. If someone is writing a style-file for a particular application, and has + to implement a particular design, it will be up to them how ambitious + they are in their re-definition of N. + + People attenting Don Hosek's classes might simply replace center by + flushright or flushleft. + + If a "a woman editor of a physics journal" has to enforce a house-style + that doesn't lend itself to a simple re-definition of N, it would be up + to her whether she goes for: + (a) a complicated re-definition of N, in the hope that, although she can + expect to spend time finding bugs in her definition, the time she spends + on coding and bug-fixes may be less than the time she would have spent + in "visual formatting", + (b) visual formatting, by replacing N by lower-level commands in the + few cases when the simple definition leaves things sticking into + a margin (or margins). + If she goes for (a), and is sufficiently confident of the code to put it + "in the public domain", people will look to her for maintenance of the + code, not to the people who produced the simple code in the standard + styles. + + Similarly, it would be open for someone writing their own style file + to try making N intelligent enough to "fit" awkwardly sized tables + automatically, but maintenance would be a matter for them. E.g. if + someone produces a style-file that lays a document out in the style + of the PostScript manuals, it would be up to them whether they try + to make N intelligent enough to use the "heading margin" when "necessary", + and if so whether they risk putting the style-file in the public domain. + Nothing they did would imply any additional maintenance for the + simple definitions used in the "standard styles". + + +There would then be the following open questions: + +* the name to be used for N + +* the relationship with the "floating environments". + + Should it be possible to have a common numbering sequence for the captions + for both fixed and floating tables? If so, it would presumably be necessary + to define N so that, as far as floats were concerned, it was as if a + \begin{table}[h] had been possible. Otherwise, numbering could get out of + sequence if a floated-table floated past a fixed-table. + + Should a float automatically do an N? If it's an environment that's + specifically designed to float tables, I'd say "yes" for the standard + styles, although obviously anyone writing anything else could do what + they liked. +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} +\begin{center} --- \end{center} +\begin{footnotesize}\begin{verbatim} +From: MITTELBACH FRANK <PZF5HZ@EARN.RUIPC1E> +Date: Thu, 10 Jan 91 14:11:27 CET +> +> Once again, the discussion on LaTeX-L is sailing off into the wild blue +> yonder. The document style should not try to figure out that because +> this is the left-hand page of an article for a physics journal edited +> by a woman, overlong equations should extend to the right. This kind +> of nonsense will produce 126-megabyte document styles that will exhibit +> three new bugs per month for ten years. + +Of course, the document style should be able to figure +out that this is a left hand page and place an example +(as in the LaTeX book) into the correct margin. The +same might be true for other objects in special +application. This is not a question of standard styles, +but one of my goals for the LaTeX reimplementation is +to provide the necessary tools for the designer to +produce such styles if desired. + +... +In this special case, the concept of a +`displaysomething' environment looks like a good idea +to me, at least much better then telling the user to +use center, etc. for things like this. ... + +> +> Problems such as things that don't fit on a line require user +> intervention. They are solved, as the final step in producing a +> document, by inserting "visual-formating" commands. +> +That there are a lot of cases which can not be solved +automatically is clear (for this reason I like to have +e.g. user/editor invention via attribute). But is not a +bad idea to free a standard document from visual +formatting by adding standard logical concepts which +are missing so far (do not let you guide solely by +trying to keep the LaTeX book rewrite to a minimum). +This can and should be discussed, that just the reason +for this list. + +> placed on this page of this version of this document. Or, more +> generally, on how visual-formating commands, which may have to be +> changed each time a new version is created, should be integrated +> with the idealogically correct logical-formating commands. +> + +This is an interesting side remark, should there be +some way to make visual formatting like \newpage +visible? I remember a case where somebody said +\samepage without any grouping and it took me a long +time to find out why his document was formatted in a +funny way. + +\end{verbatim}\end{footnotesize} + + |